Do you prefer fanfics that take place prior to the original books, or take up where the original books left off?In other words, prequels or sequels? I personally find myself leaning towards sequels. I like being in a comfort zone with people I already know and love and where I'm about 85% sure of how they would react to certain things and so on. Prequels are a little trickier because we're looking at how the person that was became the person we know from the original works, and sometimes looking at the person that was can be frightening. For example, the reason that I've never attempted a prequel Algy fic is that one question that constantly haunts me and wakes me up in the middle of the night:
What exactly did Algy do to Biggles that made Biggles dislike him so much as a kid?
Do I want to know that Algy? What if he's all wrong and nothing like the Algy I love beyond description????
Trickey. If I really like the work of a fanfic writer, I give them leeway to write as they like. However, it is true that when venturing into an unknown area, there is more likelihood that their imagination of what might have been may not match mine. In the case of the Biggles stories, there is also a missing area of some 15 years or so after 1918 for writers to explore.
ReplyDeleteIn the case of Algy, I don't think he did anything. Biggles did not like the way young Algy was dressed as a child but Algy was not alone (others would also have been similarly dresed, and blame his mother anyway!) nor his appearance when introduced into the story; however, that mattered less than that in the middle of the War, an aunt writes such an idiotic letter to him.
I don't think it was just the fact that Algy was dressed in "velvet and ribbons" that annoyed Biggles; he also describes Algy as a "little horror", indicating that he had issues with Algy's personality as well.
ReplyDeleteAdd to that getting the letter from his aunt, I can see why he was in a bad mood when Algy showed up. He was probably thinking something along the lines of, "I can't even keep MYSELF alive, let alone some poor boob who's only done ten hours who is dressed up in velvet and ribbons and a little horror and etc etc".
But there still remains the question, why did Biggles not get along with Algy when they were kids? They couldn't have seen each other that many times: Biggles was in India for most of his childhood, and in school for the rest, so at best he could only have seen Algy once a year, on occasions like Christmas when everyone was on their best behavior (or what passes for best behavior as kids)!
And given that Biggles was in India until he was sent to school (he was fourteen and a half, so he told his headmaster), and when sent to England Biggles lived with an uncle in Norfolk to recover from a bout of fever before going to school, it is quite hard to see when he would have had any contact with Algy at the age when Algy might have been dressed in velvet and ribbons as a child.
ReplyDeleteWhen Biggles' headmaster asks Biggles if he knows any other boys, Biggles says no, when he saw them he didn't know what to say. So it doesn't seem likely Biggles would have met Algy then. else surely he would have said he had met his cousin. And anyway, by then Algy would have been too old to be dressed in velvet and ribbons! He'd have been at boarding school - getting into mischief, no doubt.
In fact, if you accept the above, which is WEJ's account of when Biggles first went to England (in Goes to School, and not Biggles' memory in Goes Home when Biggles says he was in India until he was twelve, you have to hypothesise that, if Algy was actually seen by Biggles as a young child, the Lacey family would have had to have visited India. But maybe Biggles only had seen photos of Algy - the sort of thing families did at Christmas.
I have no preference as to whether fanfics are set before, after or during, as long as the characters ring true.
ReplyDeleteWhat is 'true' though is not always so easy! I have my own, quite strong, views on the characters, but I am prepared to bend a little if I like the way an author crafts their fanfic.
In fact, I agree totally with ShirleyJay :-)
Also... just remembered, Algy says he recognises Biggles from the photo back home, suggesting he didn't remember him from meeting him.
ReplyDeleteSo maybe Biggles had only seen photos of Algy years back and just assumed he was a 'horror'. Or maybe Biggles' brother saw more of the Lacey family when he was at Prep school, Public School, Sandhurst, and occasionally wrote home saying ' and there's this kid cousin, he's a little horror... you'd never believe it but he...
Lots of prequel opportinities for Algy goes to school :-))))
In 'Hits The Trail' when Biggles and the others go to rescue Dickpa at his country estate, Biggles says: "I used to birds-nest in this park when I was a kid, so I know every inch of it." He is then able to lead the way effortlessly in the dark, by way of an obscure footpath across the park to the house.
ReplyDeleteSo it sounds as if he spent a lot of time at Dickpa's at some point in his childhood. Was this before he went to school? Perhaps the family came back to England for a holiday when Biggles was quite small and visited all of their relations. He might have met Algy briefly then.
Algy would probably have been caught and dressed up for the occasion,(in velvet and ribbons) had his face scrubbed and told to sit still and behave! Algy consequently was probably sulking when Bigggles first met him and made a bad impression. We know Algy sulks. EVS says so in 'Flies East'.
Algy probably couldn't wait for the inconvenient guests to go so he could get out of THAT suit....
Regarding the fanfic question, I don't really mind either way, so long as the characters remain identifiable, and 'in-character', and, if a prequel, the story adds something or connects in some way to the later stories....
ReplyDeleteI agree that prequels are often a lot trickier to pull off, but if an author gets it right it can be fun to learn a bit more about a favourite character's background.
You might be right about a family trip when Biggles and Algy were small JJ. Even if Biggles' mother died when he was very young, his father might have brought him and his brother to England. Maybe when his brother started school, when Biggles might have been about seven or eight? if Algy was then seven-ish, might he, a little upper-class boy, still have been dressed in velvet etc.?
ReplyDeleteAs for bird nesting, that is about on a par with Biggles treasure hunting of valuable archaeological relics. Wouldn't be approved of now :-)
Of course, Biggles-the-genius would be able to remember every inch of somewhere he visited maybe 20 or more years previously **rolls eyes**.
Algy sulking in 'Flies East'... hmmm... well... I suppose Algy hadn't then got a smart reply like the ones he came up with when taken a prisoner in 'Swastika' and 'Delivers the Goods' :-)
Sorry about so many comments - work is exceptionally boring today :-(
ReplyDeleteThe Algy blog is so much more fun...
I'm not too keen on prequels unless it's really very good at joining the dots. I don't think I would attempt one. Like Soppy, I'm more in my comfort zone with sequels. With Biggles fanfics, though, I suppose some of the stories we write are prequels to some books, but the characters are already established.
ReplyDeleteSA, I've enjoyed all your comments and can see why an Algy blog is much better than work.
Biggles had definitely met Algy because he says "it's years since I saw him, and if he's anything like the little horror he was then...". Perhaps JJ is right and Algy had been in a bad mood because of his clothing, and Biggles felt awkward because he hadn't ever interacted with boys of his own age--a situation where everyone starts off on the wrong foot!
ReplyDeleteI expect that even though he spent most of his childhood in India there would be Thanksgiving and Christmas and things where the family would come back to England and Biggles would meet Algy and go birds nesting and everything.
I'm not sure writing Algy Goes to School would be a good idea. I'm still in the middle of writing Algy Burns All His Bridges (also published under the title "Biggles Married III"), and frankly, even I'M getting a little breathless...
And SA, I would certainly hope that the Algy blog is more interesting than work! If it wasn't I would be really worried!
They wouldn't be likely to be popping over to England for the odd harvest supper, or even for Christmas. Travelling from India to England in the early 20th century was by ship and would be a major journey from the more remote regions of India.
ReplyDeleteIn the Bigglesworths' case, first they'd have to get to a port (maybe Bombay or Calcutta) from Garhwal which would take quite a long time). Then they'd get a ship (coal-fired) to an English port, which took three weeks or so. Lastly they'd have to travel (presumably by train) from the English port to wherever they were going. if one of the places was Merioneth, that might be a fair journey (deepest darkest Wales).
And then they'd have to go back to India again, the same slow way.
It is unlikely that Biggles' father, as a senior administrator, would have that sort of length of time off very often. He probably went for years without ever going back to England.
Children must have been sent to England on their own, for example, to start school - presumably with a responsible adult on board ship to act in loco parentis.
Biggles leaves India for school in England and WEJ says he was never to see his father again. it is clear that his father didn't go with him. Perhaps his uncle met him at Southampton, or wherever the ship docked.
Interesting stuff SA. It's easy to understand now why Biggles hadn't seen Algy for years.
ReplyDeleteI have never read 'Goes To School', (it is one of the books which keeps eluding me), I never realised Biggles never saw his father again after leaving India.
I wonder then when Biggles' father bought the family home in London.He can't have owned it very long.I always assumed Biggles had lived there for a while with his father and brother, but now it seems Biggles can't have lived there ever.... he certainly hoped to find both of his relatives there when he called but found it all shut up....
Perhaps none of their leaves ever coincided.
Charles Bigglesworth seems to have been a lot closer to their father than Biggles (as adults at any rate). Was that because they were both army men perhaps and had more in common?
It is in Biggles the Boy that WEJ says he was never to see his father again; it is at the end of that that Biggles is sent back to England to school.
ReplyDeleteGoes to School opens with Biggles, the new boy, being interviewed by the headmaster. And it is then we learn a little about Charles and his successful school career, that he went to Sandhurst, and had recently got his commission.
Biggles tells his headmaster that he is fourteen and a half (maybe rounded up a bit as he was born in May 1899) so it must then be September 1913, in other words, the year before WWI started (unless in those days Public School terms started in October)
I always imagined that when WWI started, Biggles father, in a fit of patriotism, went back to the army to do his bit. And of course Charles would be fighting with his regiment.
I also always imagined that Biggles' father bought a house in London to use as a base - for himself and Charles, mainly, because he would expect his younger son to be looked after in the school holidays by the uncle in Norfolk, or Dickpa, or the godfather in Kent. As two adults, both serving in the army, father and son would probably be close. Yet both were to die before the end of the war - poor Charles just two months before the end of the war.
Probably, Biggles' father and Charles didn't expect young James to sign up for the army at such a young age (mainly so he could learnt to fly I always thought, because that's what Biggles wanted to do). And of course they weren't around to stop him, and once he had signed on the dotted line, that was probably that. Maybe he didn't even let his father or brother know what he'd done for a while.
But I expect you are right - leave would be a scarce commodity and the chances of any of them getting leave at the same time would be pretty small. And we know how hard Major Mullen found it to get Biggles to take any leave at all!
It looks like there are big gaps in Biggles' childhood as well as in the period after WWI!
ReplyDeleteInteresting about the London house. I suppose it's possible that Biggles' father bought it or inherited it before Biggles was born and he and his family (including Charles?) lived in it before Biggles was born. He mightn't have been posted to India until later--just before Biggles was born, for example. After Biggles' mother died his father might have thrown himself into his work and not wanted to bother about the house (selling of, renting etc).
It is possible that while Biggles was in India Charles stayed in the house (or came back to it for holidays) with someone such as an old nanny or an uncle or something to look after him.
All in all Charles Bigglesworth seems to have provided an interesting subject for discussion!
Wonder if Algy ever met Charles? If there was a photo of Biggles there must have been one of Charles as well?
ReplyDeleteI like this Soppy - the idea that Biggles' father had the house before they went out to India and maybe he inherited it.
ReplyDeleteHe'd keep it too wouldn't he, for when he had to retire from his job and come back to England. Or in case when he retired he decided to come back to England. Or for Charles to have...
And I am sure you are right. There would be photos of Charles too. I wonder what he looked like. Tall and strong I always imagine. Not pale and weedy. I wonder if Charles took after his father and Biggles took after his mother - as, in many ways, WEJ's descriptions of Biggles and Algy are not so different - apart from the freckles ;-)
I wonder if Charles took after his father and Biggles took after his mother - as, in many ways, WEJ's descriptions of Biggles and Algy are not so different - apart from the freckles ;-)
ReplyDeleteGood point, SA.
I think Biggles and Algy are similar and height and build (If anyone mentions the word stocky, I will fly my Camel over their house), but their looks are quite different. Biggles is usually described with harder lines in his face, a determined chin etc, so he sounds grimmer, while Algy sounds like his face is made to smile and grin and display expressions of amused surprise, so I don't think anyone would take one look at them and think they were related.
ReplyDelete